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Look up ‘concrete lathe’ and you’ll quickly find yourself reading the works of [David Gingery]. His series of books on building a machine shop from scrap begin with a charcoal foundry, and quickly move to creating a metal lathe out of concrete. Before [Gingery]’s lathe, around the time of World War I, many factories created gigantic machine tools out of concrete. It’s an old idea, but you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone with a shop featuring concrete machine tools.

Cheap lathes are plentiful on Craigslist, after all. Building a metal lathe from concrete is more of a challenge. This challenge was recently taken up by [Curt Filipowski] that resulted in a real, working lathe made out of concrete, scrap, and a lot of bolts. The concrete lathe begins with a form, and for this [Curt] cut out all the parts on a CNC router. Creating the form isn’t quite as simple as you would think – the concrete form included several bolts that would alow [Curt] to bolt bearings, ways made out of gas pipe, and angle iron.

This form was filled with concrete in [Curt]’s kitchen, and after a nice long cure, the lathe was moved up to the upstairs shop. That’s a five hundred pound block moved up a flight of stairs by a single person. Asus Eax300se Windows 7 Driver. The rest of the build deals with the cast concrete carriage which rides along the polished gas pipe ways, a tool post holder milled out of a block of aluminum, and finally.

While it’s not the most practical lathe – the carriage moves along the ways by turning a wheel underneath the tailstock – it does demonstrate a concrete lathe is possible. Posted in, Tagged, Post navigation.

What I found out (to my utter surprise) when moving my newly acquired 175kg (385 pounds) welder, if it has caster wheels and they have the right spacing, you can relatively easily move it on stairs (or in and out of a van), as you are always lifting only 1/2 the weight, which is perfectly doable even for a atrophied IT tech and his equally “strong” friend:D The wheel spacing is critical, both wheels have to be able to travel the whole length of a stair, otherwise you have to lift the entire thing, which sucks even on an inclined plane;-). I saw that and was thinking the exact same thing – that spindle needs to be preloaded and would benefit greatly from a nice set of angular contact bearings. Brass is also tricky to machine. It’ll be cutting smoothly and then suddenly grab (which is what happens right as the chuck lifts in that last video). That said, this machine seems pretty capable.

I’m curious how much it cost though. You can often find the cheap, but totally capable, Harbor Freight (aka Sieg, Enco, Grizzly, Real Bull – they have many brand names) mini lathes for $300-400 used, and not much more new. With some tuning you can do quite a bit with those machines.

Yes, clearly tapered roller bearings would be better, but I also suspect a problem with the deflection of the chuck is that it is mounted to a plate of 1/4″ aluminum. The 3/8″ plate ONLY serves to center the chuck; that quarter-inch plate that it actually mounts to probably accounts for much of the deflection. Welding has its own problems.

Gingery states in his lathe book that he first tried to fabricate a lathe by welding, and found that he couldn’t control the warpage as it cooled, leading him to try casting aluminum and zinc, with superior results. Square tubing is astonishingly straight. Gary Burton Makoto Ozone Virtuosity there. Much straighter and stiffer than gas pipe.

My Dad had commented about this before he died, but it was only after that I put a precision straight edge to a piece of 3/8″ wall, 2″ square tubing he left me. It was as straight as the straight edge which was specified at 0.001″ in 3 ft. You would be most unlikely to match that by welding. In fact, the chief difficulty one would face making ways using square tubing would be alignment. The concrete work shown is an example of what not to do.

To my limited experience in concrete, it looks like he did right by not having too wet a mix, making it stronger, but did not work it enough to get the cement and fine aggregate into all the nooks and crannies. He does seem to be a bit in denial, deciding that the deep voids are “cosmetic”. But his choices at that point were 1) break up and dispose of 400 lbs. Of concrete and try again, or 2) use it as-is and hope for the best. Noob mistake, but I’m wondering what you mean by “what not to do”.

That is absolutely terrible concrete work. Everything he did that has anything to do with concrete is wrong. First off, he should have just bought a sheet of concrete forming plywood; it already has a waterproof finished surface specifically designed for contact with concrete. It would cost less than that sheet of MDF and he wouldn’t have had to seal or oil anything. Second, why use quickcrete bags when you can design your own, much stronger mix for a fraction of the cost by just buying a bag of portland cement and some aggregate. Third; while a dryer mix may end up being stronger, it can be marginal and you run the risk of what happend here. Any strength benefit is outweighed by the fact that all the air voids have made the structure incredibly weak and prone to cracking.

A properly compacted mix is much more important than a slightly higher final Mpa. Strength is useless if the concrete is not workable. Concrete should be able to flow. Regardless, for this case, the strength of the concrete is irrelevant. All you want is a big heavy block that won’t fall apart.

He could have used concrete so weak that it wouldn’t even be suitable for filling in a whole and it would have still worked. Fourth – WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THIS IN YOUR BASEMENT???? Yeah, sure he lives in Canada – and so do I. I know a little bit about canadian winters. Considering that I operate tower cranes on high rise buildings, I also know a little bit about pouring concrete in canadian winters. Concrete work doesn’t stop in the winter and you can rest assured that there is no heating for the concrete that is used for walls.

Floors are heated from underneath but only for two days. After that the heating is turned off and moved up for the next pour. Every single building in Canada that takes longer than one year to build has concrete in it that did not see temperatures above freezing during it’s entire cure time. If you want to pour concrete in the winter in you garage – GO AHEAD. Once you pour it, cover the form with some plastic to keep the humidity in and some thick insulated blankets to keep the heat from curing in. You can strip the forms the next day if you want to – but don’t leave it anymore than three days or you’re just making it harder on yourself to strip the forms.

Was a book ever mentioned? I can’t tell if you just want a book for use as a reference or if you’re implying that without a book this can’t be an effective way to make a machine. I’ve built the entire Gingery series of metal working tools and can say with some authority that making a Gingery lathe is magnitudes more difficult than what I saw in those 5 videos. If all you want is a lathe, this is a pretty good way of going about it. The Gingery series is more about building a comprehensive metal working shop from scratch, the lathe being only one part of that. But the article never says you’ll find a Gingery book on concrete lathes.

It says if you search for ‘concrete lathe’ you’ll find results for Gingery lathes. It then goes on to talk about pre-Gingery concrete lathes. I still don’t understand if the person I replied to was looking for a book, felt like there was a book the builder of this concrete lathe referenced, or if they were trying to be snarky and suggest if it’s not found in a Gingery book, it ain’t right. To your comment – did you even read what I wrote?

We all agree that the Gingery series is all about casting metal parts for metal working. Except the Yeomans lathe is not made from conrete. It’s a lathe where steel guideways are cast in place instead of the usual way of making a rough casting, followed by milling, and then by painstakingly scraping the ways. The original article is this: Note that this article has no reference to conrete, cast here clearly means cast iron.

Then some guys came along that for some reason (maybe because of the rough cast look) thought that it was made out of conrete. This is the article that is the original source of the WW1 conrete lathe story: As for as I know there is no original documentation about any WW1 conrete lathe, and all articles about it derive from this one “multimachine” article. Considering the quality of concrete at the time I very much doubt it existence. This concrete lathe here would be a lot better as a wood lathe.

Considering the spindle design (or lack of design) and the rather unsuitable characteristics of concrete. It’s clear from the brass turning video that it can barely turn non-ferro metal, let alone steel.

If you just need to do occasional, not too accurate metal turning,as well as freehand wood turning it might be a good lathe. It’s a nice effort but seems like a lot of work for what it is though. Why does HaD keep featuring junk projects like this? Do you not have a mechanical engineer or machinist on staff? Proving something can be done, whether it should be done, and whether it is a practical learning experience/there are lessons to be learned, are all entirely different things, and this project ticks none of those boxes. There’s a wide variety of reasons why this project is moronic that would be apparent to any sophomore mechanical engineer. Chief among them is that concrete is a terrible material to be building machine tools from.

It’s not even a practical material for that task. Ticks none of those boxes?

They proved something can be done. I saw the videos. I have several “real” lathes, from tiny little ones to a giant beast of a lathe.

This guy made a machine that can do most of the things my “real” machines can do. Should it be done? You are not the authority on what should or shouldn’t be done. If the guy who made the lathe thought it should be done, then yes, it should be done. You assert that concrete is a terrible material. Let’s go with that.

You don’t say why it’s terrible so let’s also assume you’re talking about its long term stability and shifting dimensions as it cures. Let’s ignore the affordances for adjustments over time the designer of this project clearly points out as he builds the lathe. 6 months from now the maker of this machine might discover that the concrete has changed enough to cause alignment issues. They may not know that right away, but will certainly spend some time investigating. Will they learn something in a practical way?

Will they gain experience? If you’re going to trash a project, and cite that even a sophomore mechanical engineer knows it’s moronic, don’t be as sophomoric to not point out why. You’re not helping anyone by just being a dick.

Fail is defined by the customer. If you build something for yourself, and it meets or exceeds your own expectations, then it is most definitely not a fail. The fact that it doesn’t meet YOUR standards means you shouldn’t try to buy one from him, or build one in the same manner.

It doesn’t appear that you had any notion of doing either, so just what WAS the purpose of your post? The fact that the builder of this project already had access to CNC machine tools tells me that the primary objective was not to obtain a lathe as cheaply as possible. Also, he did not blindly follow the instructions for building Lucien Yeomans’ lathe – he modified the design to fit his needs and expectations. And while the end result is a machine that probably doesn’t perform as well as a commercial lathe he could’ve bought for the same money, I’m certain he has learned a lot from this process.

I am also sure that his lathe is not finished. Hacking is the act of deciding that what you can buy is not what you want, and doing something about it. Assuming you are not just trolling Why do you think you are to decide if a project is junk or not? Why would a mechanical engineer be needed to _post_ about a project?

Are you assuming that there should be an in-depth analysis of each posted project? [Also you should browse machinist websites – the “cargo cult” is strong there! The most obvious one is the worship of weight rather than proper design] This is obviously a practical learning experience, claiming that it isn’t smells of bovine droppings. No, how about you just go away? You obviously don’t know shit but try to brag about yourself _without_ giving any clue why you “know” something isn’t good enough. Concrete have been and is(!) used to make machine tools so even that is wrong. In retrospect (after writing this) I hope you were trolling.

I’m not trolling at all. I’ve sat and had a critical think about the information presented, and using my experience as a mechanical engineer and machinist, I made a value judgement of the project – and the outcome was not positive. No, but I think that someone should sit and think critically about what a project says before they mindlessly post it. This project provides good learning examples in many regards – structural design for stiffness, spindle design, understanding the properties of materials – but none of the lessons to be taken from it are positive. It’s basically a ‘how to’ manual of how not to design a machine tool. That’s why I’d call it a HaD Fail, rather than a post to highlight.

I regularly browse machinist sites, and there’s a very good reason why mass is worshiped that’s immediately apparent to anyone who understands machine design. All (and that’s a large generalization, but holds for anything under a $100k VMC) metalworking machine tools are made from grey cast iron, for its damping capacity. Therefore if the material and its basic properties are fixed (focus on the density property, in this case), without performing an in-depth structural deflection analysis, the best estimate of the stiffness of a machine is its mass.

Machine tools by and large have comparable form factors; grey cast iron always has the same density. The only way then, for machine tools of comparable size, to increase the mass, is to increase the section thickness of the castings or add other internal bracing, and as a consequence, increase the machine stiffness. If a machine tool is heavy, it’s not because it’s full of lead. ‘Cargo cult’ design is not the raw worship of a single property; it’s the aggregation of properties that resemble the desired result. It’s grabbing self-aligning bearing blocks and using them as spindle bearings, ‘because lathe spindles have bearings’, without understanding the multitude of reasons why those particular bearings are nearly completely unsuitable for this use. It’s using allthread as a leadscrew, because lathes need leadscrews, right? And on it goes.

Concrete isn’t used to make machine tools. Composites are used to make machine tools – specifically epoxy granite/polymer concrete – when weldments or cast irons are not. But you will not find a machine tool made this century, where the main structural components are based on a portland type cement concrete. For the reasons I’ve stated already.

Concrete has only ever been used as an expedient in machine tool design, because the engineers that design machine tools understand its limitations. Portland concrete is far cheaper than grey cast iron or polymer concrete.

If there were any genuine reason to be building machine tools from it, people would be doing it. It’s a lot more than ‘tradition’. I’d simply say that the reaction to my comments shows just how deep the ignorance of mechanical engineering and machine design runs in this community.

Clearly I’m rubbing against the grain, but the question then remains, why is this community writ large defending what is fundamentally poor engineering and design – and as a corollary, bad hacking? Why is my observations, as a professional in the field, being dismissed as trolling?

I certainly wouldn’t have gone to this level of effort to respond just for a lark. I was the project engineer for the procurement of a custom built 52-ton, 2 story tall, ultra precision diamond turning lathe. The shell of the machine was made from welded plate steel. The components were turned upside down and fill with an epoxy-granite slurry and cured at an elevated temperature.

The steel shell acted as a form for the slurry. When completed, the machine looked like steel but had better damping. The machine was stable and performed very well. Large castings would have been more expensive and taken long to procure.